For one thing, I'm suggesting here that the expository reading of a biblical text requires planning and practice. We're gonna have to work at it a little bit because it will not come the first time. Do you know anything that any skill that you can think of that doesn't require understanding and planning and practice. If you're a musician and you have to play some instrument, Nobody ever expects to go to one lesson, pick the instrument up and therefore be proficient. Usually the first sounds coming from whatever it is, they are pitiful.

And it takes time, it takes planning, it takes practice, it takes understanding. Here's the issue, the struggle is always between the reader's habitual vocal patterns and those necessary to communicate the meaning of the text. There's your problem. It's a problem for all of us. Now, here's the following here's some questions we want to look at.

Let's take one of these. Let's begin with a narrative as we started with narrative yesterday, which let's start with the Matthew 20 sheet. This is a familiar passage to everybody I'm sure. Now if we look at this we say first, what kind of literature is it? Is it didactic, poetic, or narrative?

This will set the pattern for the vocal variables as you read, to communicate ideas, feelings, or a story. So when you look at this, what do you see? It's narrative. It does have some teaching in it because when you look at the part where Jesus is speaking from verse 25 and following, it is a teaching portion. So it's going to take a little bit of that flavor to it, almost like an epistle, as he's trying to communicate with them an idea that is foreign to them, apparently.

Yes, sir? Does it have a little bit of an empathic tone also, especially towards the end, because it's talking about people's desire? Whoever desires to be? Well, it could be. I'm guessing that's still mostly teaching.

We'll see how it works out. We'll see how it works, because we'll do this in a moment. Now, second, what seems to be the writer's purpose for the material? What does he want from the audience? Now, all the gospels are stories of episodes in Jesus' life and background and so forth.

Do you think that the writers of the gospels were intentional in including a story or not including one? So they're doing some editorial work, right? Do you think they left some stuff out? What does John say about all the things that could be told? It's too much, he said.

We can't, he said, we're just telling part of the story here. And I think that's true of Matthew and Mark and Luke, the same as it is for John. They just couldn't tell it all. Now you think about the richness of what's here and then turn around and think about the fact that that's only a part. That's really something, isn't it?

How much we were missing. Of course, some people come along and want to give you the Gospel of Thomas and a few others and help you think that you were missing something from the New Testament, but it's complete. It doesn't mean we're missing anything. It means that there's too much to tell. Now, so we have to assume then that in the Synoptics where we have this story, and here in Matthew 20, why did Matthew include this?

He's one of the questions you have to ask, why did he say it? Secondly, you have Jesus as the primary speaker and you have to ask, why is Jesus, what is his intention in telling the disciples what he did. So you have a dual purpose here. The first case, in the first case, what would you think as to why Matthew included this story in his account? There's a versions of it in Luke too, but but why did Matthew put this here?

Okay I just wanted to be first. I think the position of authority and who Christ is and humility being a sophomore servant position is something that was kind of posed for a new audience. Okay. So He was mainly wanting to communicate the content of Jesus' words here, what Jesus actually told him about servanthood. Okay, anybody else have an idea?

Matthew's trying to communicate his gospel aspects of Christ as king. In this passage, the story relates to the nature of their kingdom. All right. Now if you look at the context, it helps us, always. Before this is the rich young ruler.

Does that sound interesting? Related to servanthood? Is there any connection between a young man who's very rich and very esteemed in the community, and Jesus says what? Give everything you have to the poor and come follow me. Well, then you have the question of can a rich man make it?

The parable of the workers in the vineyard who threw out, I mean, who were, that's not the one, the one who came at different hours, and the sovereignty of the landlord, the master, in terms of who's gonna be getting what. And then you come down here, Jesus predicting his death and resurrection. Interestingly, he says, we go on to Jerusalem, Verse 18, Son of man will be betrayed to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and deliver him to the Gentiles to mock him, to scourge him, to crucify, and the third day he will rise again. Then comes right after that in this context. Right after that, what do you wish?

He asked of the mother of James and John. And he says that, my two sons may sit on your right hand and the other on your left in your kingdom. Is this a little bit of a jangle here? I mean, what is it? Are you not paying attention?

Jesus just says he's gonna be crucified, he's gonna be beat up on and killed, and now you wanna be the first lieutenants and the lieutenant governor and the secretary of state or whatever in my kingdom. That doesn't seem to fit. It indicates something about their misunderstanding of what was going on or they just weren't listening. Following this then is another occasion when we get down here, a couple of blind men and the triumphal entry into Jerusalem and the cleansing of the temple. So we've got a context to deal with.

But if you would say in the whole flow of this thing, it sounds like maybe Paul, that Matthew is indicating that Jesus' idea of greatness is gonna put you on your ear. I mean, it's just put everything on its head. And that what Jesus actually said here is of that same purpose, to try to help the disciples to understand that his idea of who is great begins with servanthood. But notice in the very last of the text, just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many. He goes back to verse 19, he goes back to the theme of the crucifixion, of his sacrificial death.

So this is a, I mean this package is this. You got the cross before this and the cross to close it. And so there's a lot going on here, isn't there? So what we have to do is we're asking what seems to be the purpose of the writer for the material? We say, well, it wants to communicate this idea.

It could be that there's a deeper idea of whoever's a servant to the extent of what? Giving his life. Take up your cross. There's a lot going on here. Now, you might be thinking to yourself, I thought we were just gonna read it.

I didn't think we were gonna preach it. Could it be that We're gonna have to do some serious hermeneutics even to read it. Interpretation, working with, how do we interpret it? Look at the next thing. What seems to be the writer's attitude or state of mind as indicating the words of the text?

Now again, we have a dual communicator here. We have the writer Matthew. And we don't know because Matthew does not, do you see Matthew in the text? Does he show up? No.

He doesn't inject himself in here. So in a way, he's the writer that assembled this and put this story here, but in a way, we don't regard Matthew at this point. We're really asking what is Jesus' state of mind indicated by the words of the text? What do you think his thoughts are? What do you think getting inside the mind of the Lord is challenge isn't it?

What seems to be his mood or his? His attitude in this whole episode of telling the disciples what he tells them. Trying to give them a perspective of humility. What is his, let's just put it this way, what does he think about their question and their understanding at this point? Okay, what's that?

He does what? You think so? Okay, But no, yes, notice that he's saying, the first thing he asks is what, about the cup? Drink the cup. Be baptized with a baptism.

Drink a cup, which means to receive something and then be just inundated with what? Suffering, pain, and they say yeah, we're able. I can almost think there's a long pause there. There's a long, you have no clue what you're talking about. You don't know what you're asking.

It's almost as if, there's another group, one of them talks about how, you know, each blankie told me that they just don't understand what he's telling them. It's almost like the same thing here. They just really don't understand what he just said to them. They don't get it, do they? They just, it kind of went right over their head.

So he's just said, now when he says the cup and the baptism, is he referring back to 19? It'd be delivered to the Gentiles, the mock and scourge. So there you have in the middle the same thing. You have the cross all the way through this. So we have to think about that when we're reading this.

We have to think about, this is about the, this is about the atonement of Christ, this is about Jesus setting the example of servanthood by giving his life, okay? When you talk about context, we have to look at the other Gospels also for this story in Mark 10 where Peter talks about James and John's mother coming to Jesus and Mark 10 talks about James and John also coming to Jesus So there has to be, in my words, a attitude of frustration of your mother asked me, now you're asking me. Come on here, let's listen to this. Okay. All right.

The contrast between the rulers of the Gentiles and the Christian. It's a significant idea here, isn't it? Okay, here's the way the world does it. Here's the way we're gonna do it in the kingdom. Very different.

We got a different story altogether about how we're going to handle greatness. Whoever would be great. You think everybody wants to be great? Did Jesus criticize him for wanting to be great? He's really saying the deal is not that you want to be great, the problem is your path to get there And your interpretation of what greatness is.

Greatness is lording it over people. Greatness is being rich like the rich young ruler. Is that greatness? Or is greatness something else? Greatness, servanthood.

Now, here's the thing. We have to do some interpretation, but go back and think about this. God is the most high, is he? He made every human being in his image, right? A part of the image of God then must be a sense of destiny toward greatness.

You with me? If God is the Most High, infinitely great, Great is the Lord, greatly to be praised, right? God is infinitely great, and he made us in his own image. With what? With a sort of an eighth sense.

I should be somebody. Nobody wants to be nobody. Do you want to be nobody? Everybody wants to be somebody. It's sort of like to reflect the image of God, to be what I'm made to be, I have to be somebody.

And what were they thinking? The way you be somebody, important, is to be in the government. Be a big cheese, you see. Jesus was saying, yeah, but look, what do we see in the greatness of the God who humiliates himself and submits to being killed, though he is all powerful, submits to being treated like a criminal, though he is all-righteous, submits to being helpless before men, though he could call a legion of angels. So greatness, the path to greatness is a whole different story and it's not that you and I want to be somebody who counts in the world, somebody who has a sense of dignity and achievement and a lot of other things.

That's not the problem. The problem is how are you gonna get there? And what we're communicating in this text is what? The way to get there, I think Charles Wendell's book is descending into greatness. Descending into greatness, I like that, that's good, isn't it?

Yeah, so what we, you say, well, this is all, sounds like we're gonna preach this. Well, I tell you what, if you don't have in mind what the text is really saying when you read it, then maybe your brain and your thoughts and the vocal mechanism can't get in sync to let it express itself, see? So it's a really, really, this text has got contrasts and impact. Could it be that we've heard it so many times that when we read this part down here, where he says, you do not know what you ask. You don't get it.

Are you able to drink the cup that I'm about to drink? Verse 19, verse 28. And be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized, I'm almost hearing weariness in Jesus. Weariness with, oh, I think of those texts when he says, how long do I have to put up with you people? You don't get it, do you?

You don't know what you're asking. You don't have an understanding. And then he says, they say to him, we are able. They're eager. Because he's not saying, no, you can't do it here first.

He's saying, are you really, can you do this? Can you take this assignment? You're asking to be the chief assistance and all. So what do you think of Jesus' mood here? Do you see this weariness, exasperation, what?

I actually see him kind of like an older brother almost. Because he is saying, you know, you will, you'll see this. You'll have to go through. You can die for this. You just don't see it now.

I know how it's going to be. You don't see it yet. You're not mature enough. You're not seeing it. But you'll get there.

You'll see it. I think that there's sort of a, because he does pull them aside on 25, but Jesus called them to himself and said, hey, you know how this is what you've seen? It's not going to be like that with you. And of course we know later that that's what they have to find out for themselves. That's the case.

My feeling is that he is he is doing it like you don't get it yet. But you will. Because you'll have to you're gonna drink of this. Okay, there's an interpretation. Now, do you see what's happening here?

We're interpreting, are we not? Interpreting the intention and attitude of the speaker. And that will affect the way you read it. If you think he's saying, you don't get it yet, but you're gonna get it, you can read it that way. Right?

If you're thinking instead, different, little different tone, Jesus knows what's ahead, he dreads it, but he set his face toward it. He's already got a sense of foreboding about him, a sense of almost weariness, an understanding that he's gonna be very much alone in this. These people are his closest companions. And where are they in the story of understanding he's headed for the cross. They don't have a clue.

This is, he's all by himself. And does this come through? Is there gonna be a little bit here, a little bit here of the same thing you hear in Gethsemane? Take this cup, there's the cup again, take this cup from me. Nevertheless, not as I will, but as your will, your will be done.

I'm just saying, what are you gonna see here? You're gonna read and you're gonna preach or teach the same, what you see. You're going to have to think through. How do we know the answer to that? We have to look at the words.

That's all we can do. Look at the words, look at the context, look at the larger context, and see what we can see. Okay, you had a comment? I was just gonna say I kind of see a little bit of in a wonderment of the enormity of what they're asking. Their audacity?

And then just the scope of that. Their audacity? Now, do you think that is going to be another interpretation? Is that going to affect how you read and going to make it sound different? OK.

We already have several interpretations here. OK. I'm a little puzzled here. I guess I'm thinking that there is a way to do it. There is the way that this is read.

But what I'm hearing is that there are subtle shadings, colorings, and it sounds like you're saying that it's inevitable. You have to interpret it some way. Can you open your mouth and read this without interpreting? You're bringing to it your understanding of it. Is your understanding, you could read this flippantly, couldn't you?

You could read it with no particular understanding, just read the da da da da da da, you know, give the, just sound the words. You can read it with the subtleties that we're describing here built into it because you're thinking that. Now here's exactly what I'm saying. If even in reading a text we are interpreting, this is a reader's hermeneutic here, we're interpreting How much more of me is gonna be in a sermon? And my view, my perspective on it, all that I bring with me to it.

This is what we call in hermeneutics your preunderstandings. You bring all your stuff with you. Can you bring to the scripture for teaching, for reading, for whatever, Can you come totally objective, totally setting aside all your pre-understandings, all your biases, all your experience from up to this point? Can you set all that aside? It can't happen.

But what should you do with it? The thing we have to do with it is acknowledge, identify, here are my biases about this. For instance, some of us may come from a background as Christians in which we are used to hearing preaching and used to seeing leadership in church be rather legalistic and hard-nosed. I don't know if anybody comes from anything like that. I mean to the point of saying, well, you know, toe the line, let's get with it.

Everybody's supposed to, here's what you need to do. All sermons are do better sermons. All sermons are this is the rule, obey, get with it. Maybe we come from that kind of background. You might just bring all that with you to read this text.

And Jesus is saying what? You are really dumb here. You don't understand anything. Can you follow me in the baptism in the cup I have to take? What?

It's not gonna be this way with you. These people operate this, but you're gonna be great this way. And so, Jesus is kind of telling him where it is here. Maybe that's your background. You bring that?

Is that what the, do the words of the text give us that? Eh, maybe. Do they give us that tone? I don't know. But you could bring it with you.

You could also come from a feely touchy background, in which everything is about how do you feel? And you could bring that with you to the text. And you could say, well, this is the man Jesus struggling with his disciples' failure to grasp what he's doing. And He's wanting to teach them. And they don't get it.

He's like a mother, gathering them around. Teach them. You want to bring that with you? Okay, bring it with you. You got it, if that's what you have.

And there's other kinds of, you know, there's the teacher type. Maybe you're the teacher type. You say this is all about concepts and ideas. That's what this is about. So I'm bringing this to you and I see everything here is teaching.

There's no emotion involved here. There's no struggle here. It's just plain. You will indeed drink my cup and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with, but to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give, but is for those for whom it has been prepared by my father You know the rulers of the Gentiles we're going to teach you this and that's it. There's no emotion here It's just plain facts get this down.

This is the way it is. Maybe you bring that What I want to know is what does this text bring? In the big picture in the long haul in the context and all is there any way we can find it Are we going to be exactly what you said we're going to be confused about all kinds of interpretations that can be brought Now you get and read you get up in worship, and you are in your home Worship with the family and you read this text are you going to be interpreting it to the hearer? Yes, you are you know what I think this leads me to I want to read it over and over and over and over and I want to get a sense of Jesus in this and the disciples. And I want to say, Lord, you speak through your word, through your servant.

I want to know what your interpretation is. Now, you know what Our biggest problem most of the time is we dip into a Bible passage from without checking the surrounding waters. We just jump in and say, well, here's this verse. We love to quote favorite verses and proof text things when really it's in a flow of context, historically context, emotional context, literary context, political context. It's all here.

Now, boy, you mean we gotta do all this just to read the Bible? Well, maybe not, but I'm just trying to say if we go, if we get a picture here of what's happening with the interpretation, then we understand a little bit more how serious it is, hermeneutics is, and how vital it is that we come this way. Lord, I want you to say what you want to say. I don't want to come and cram my biases and my church background and my Christian experience and all that down on this. I really like to be able to suspend judgment a little bit.

I would like to be able to just let it come through fresh. There's a freshness about this. You know what preaching sounds like a lot. A lot of preaching sounds like the same old same old. Doesn't it?

And I'm a preacher and I hate to admit that It sounds like I've heard this before I've heard it before just this way It didn't impress me then it doesn't impress me now, but I think you know But you know what and this is the living word alive and powerful and sharper than a two-edged sword I tell my students look if you don't draw blood you're not using the sword Which means what beat up on people no it means penetrate to the what? Division separation of bones and marrow flesh and spirit a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. You gotta get down to the motivations and intentions, see? And do a little cutting at that level. That's what preaching should be doing and what the word wants to do.

It's what the word does to me and you too. Now, what I'm getting at is try to figure out the mood. We have not identified Jesus' mood here. Anybody wanna add something further? What do you think?

Okay. I think for me the most enigmatic phrase in this is at the beginning where he says, what do you wish? Because we haven't heard what her request is, but yet Jesus obviously, supernaturally could discern what her wish was. He already knew the thoughts and intents of her heart. So I'm trying to figure out what tonal inflection that we give to that phrase, what do you wish, since he knows but nobody else does.

Okay, you know one of the things you wanna do at this point, and this is hard to do too, is I like to do a little of the, what is the choreography of this thing? I've got myself, in my mind I've got Jesus, They're out in the countryside and Jesus is over, he's tired, he's sitting down, leaning up against a tree. This is a picture, I know it doesn't say that, but I'm saying, and the disciples are all over there. Now you get the idea they're over there, they're over away, They're not right there with Jesus. They're over there eating, and he's getting just a little time away from them for a few feet anyway, like the length of this room maybe.

And here comes the mother of James and John. She approaches him in his quietude. She approaches him. She bows down low. It is customary in the Middle East for there to be, and there's even a term for it that I can't remember, there's a customary for there to be a person come and prepare for a request, a relative or a friend or somebody that knows both people to come and kind of set up a request situation.

And so she does, she comes and bows low, and she says basically what? Would you do for me anything I ask I mean what does she say came keeping keeping kneeling down and asking something from him what are the other gospel say something similar yeah so I'm having an idea that she representing the sons, it's still the sons. Jesus looks at her, he loves her, he loves the disciples, he looks at her, and he lifts up his eyes, and over there, James and John, trying to look occupied with the conversation with the other disciples. But they keep glancing over to see what mom's going to get. You know, they already been in cahoots about this, you see, mom, would you go you know, would you go ask him?

We're going to Jerusalem. The big day is coming going to set up the kingdom. And so they're over there watching. So I have an idea Jesus lifted up his eyes from this woman who is bowing down before him. He looks over at the disciples and he speaks a little bit louder and says, what do you ask?

That's just my thought for it. What do you wish? So then she speaks up and tells him what? And then Jesus looks up again to them. You do not know what you're asking.

How do I know he's talking to them? Are you able to drink the cup? Is he talking to her? He's not talking to her. Huh?

Right. They're right there, but in the other, in the idea, in the other gospel, the sons come. And she's the one, she's the intermediary. He doesn't talk to her, essentially. He's talking to them.

Now here's what you got, is a situation in which somebody is trying to get him to promise something before he knows what it is, which he, it's hard to do that with Jesus. But, so what are you gonna do about his tone here, his mood? Is he disappointed? Is he upset, angry? Is he what?

He can ask that question knowing, because he doesn't know, knowingly, what do you want? Even though he knows what he wants, he's letting it play out. Play it out, yeah. So he's knowing the response. When your kids come to ask you something, and you've heard them in the other room, you know what do you want?

Because you know they're coming to ask something to us. So obviously, he does know. You know that he knows what's going on. So you can say, What do you want? Like, he can be kind of annoyed and humorous and humorous at the same time.

But you know, these are children, you know, your kids kind of they've already asked mom and they come to ask you something you know about. Okay, do you see a lightness in this thing? The playfulness? I mean, right here, I think he's not he's not out. He knows what's going on.

He could be humored, and he could be humored with a straight, playing a straight-faced man, but he obviously knows. So he could, you know, what do you want? Being respectful and she's kind of respectful and he's gonna respond to a respectful man. Okay, so this is an interpretation. You get it?

Okay. All right. Play it out. All right. Okay.

Be just saying, OK, let's go through with this. Let's get started. Yeah. Yeah. Let's play it out.

OK, let's do it. Yeah. OK, first, I'll ask you. Let's do this. Let's take it down the road.

She's got a formal request, man, so he's going to respond in a formal letter. All right. Now, do you see what? We've got to get the hold of the attitude a little bit. Because when you read it, you're gonna put that into it.

What the next thing? What are the verbs? The verbs and their relationship to each other. How Will you read the action words to communicate the intention or admonition of the story? Notice the series of verbs.

What we have here. Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him with her sons, kneeling down and asking. Came, kneeling, asking. Came is the one indicative, present tense, active word, and then you've got two participles, kneeling and asking, describing how she came. She came kneeling and asking.

So you got a lot going on all of a sudden, a lot of action. Then he said and then she said, and then Jesus answered and said, and it's mostly just dialogue after that. But this is, a lot of times you'll have this, this will be a very helpful question because you're gonna see a lot of things happening in a very short time. The words you want to emphasize. Now you see what is it, if you'll mark your, mark the sheet as to what do I want to emphasize.

You can mark it with an underline or a double underline and say this is the word I've got to let be prominent in here because that's what's gonna make the difference. Like then you can say then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him with her sons, kneeling down and asking something from him, or you can say, then the mother of Zebedee's sons, or you can say, then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him. You see how those difference emphasis of where you're gonna put the emphasis. It's gonna make a difference in how you read it. Then you come down, what about pausing?

What do you see in this text? What do you see a pause? Not after what? Okay, then is a, there's no come after it. But remember another issue down here, number six, is that we don't worry about the punctuation.

It helps us sometimes and sometimes it doesn't, so we don't let it lock us in. So then tells you the story is moving along to another scene in this chapter. It's moving to another scene. It's a time or a change of place or time always is telling you in a narrative change of scene. So, then you come, you look at pauses after, then you might pause.

What else? Okay. This is this is indicating another shift in the scene. What else do you see for a pause? You think so?

Can you see Jesus looking at them, hearing them say we're able, knowing they don't have a clue? And that pause, you know what, Pauses are powerful. Those of you who preach will find that when you are preaching a sermon and you pause for a long time, suddenly everybody gives you their attention. Isn't that amazing? They're not listening to you as you're babbling along.

I mean the words are droning along kind of like the, but when you pause and let it sink in. Now pauses, I'll tell you this about pauses, there is about a one to four ratio of pause perception on the part of the audience, the hearer and the audience. You feel like you've been pausing, this is a huge pause. And the people in the group, eh, it's not a long pause. Especially if you're preaching along or teaching and you forget what you were gonna say.

And you're trying to figure out what was that next. That pause seems to you forever. But to the congregation, they're just waiting for you to pick it up. I mean, it's not a big deal to them. So there's a ratio, I think, of about one to four in the perception of pauses, which is to say this.

If you intentionally pause, go ahead and make it longer than is comfortable for you. Right? I mean, I hear preachers all the time that one sentence steps on the one after it trying to run ahead. I mean, it's just like you don't even wait to let something sink in on somebody's brain before you're shooting ahead with the next one. Kind of like a material dump, just unload your stuff.

Now what we have to do though is realize that pauses, that's why I say put a slash, a single slash for what I would call a one beat pause, double slash. I think you're right at that point, there needs to be a pretty serious pause. Okay? Not only are there times to pause to let what you just said sink in, but pause before even your say what you really wanna make sure they get. You say that also just to make sure you've got your attention, I mean, you've got your attention.

Could be, could be, could be. I think you have to, sometimes when I'm preaching, I'll just, well say something that I think I want everybody to really get, and I'll just pause and look at it. And let it keep, see what'll happen is it'll recycle in people's minds. They just heard it and they'll say, what was that now? And they'll replay it.

Because if that quickly after what you said, they can replay it. I used to use pauses to discipline my boys. Because I'd be preaching along and then I would just have a long pause and look in their direction in church. I didn't have to say anything. You know how teenagers are, they're all sitting down like this with their heads, You can barely see the top of their head over the pew in front.

And they're talking back and forth. But suddenly, their heads would all come up, of all the teenagers, you know. And they would suddenly be very attentive. And then I would just go on. I wouldn't say anything.

But they knew. They knew. Pauses are powerful. Powerful instruments. Okay, let's take a look at the next one.

What new characters or circumstances or ideas? So this is a shift. You've already pointed out here that and when is a good place to start something new, then is a new something, and so forth. There may be the, right here when the 10 heard it, there's some new characters. There's a shift there.

What questions does the writer or speaker ask? This is really important. What do you wish? This is an important question that is raised here and probably ought to have some be left to hang in the air a little bit. Then go down here ideas in the text.

What what are striking? Are there some surprises in this text? You know, nothing surprises us if we've already read this before. A dozen times and heard it preached and taught, right? It doesn't surprise us anymore.

We know what he's going to say. It's like watching a movie that you've already seen several times, I'm always amazed at my grandchildren. They will sit down and watch some cartoons or some, you know, these animated movies, Veggie Tales, and watch it over and over, and they know what's gonna happen. Or watch, what's the focus on the family thing? Odyssey.

Watch that, I've seen that Odyssey movie about the lawnmower getting away with the little kid so many times. And I know what's going to happen next. And I'm watching and I'm looking at Bradley and I say, Bradley, you like this? Yeah. He's already seen it.

It's not gonna surprise him. And he gets ready to laugh about the parts that he thinks are funny. Because it's coming up. And I'm thinking, you know, this is something about the attention level of a three year old. But if you and I have heard this before are we surprised that Jesus said, you know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them and those who are great exercise authority over them, yet it shall not be so among you.

This is a surprise. This is the contrast. What does he say next? But whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. Now that, to us, is not a surprise.

But do you think it is in this element, in this original setting? This was a shocker. It was not inconsistent with the attitude and spirit of Jesus and the stuff he'd been teaching, but the first time they heard this, Do you think this rocked them back? Like, that doesn't make any sense. Servants are the lowest people, hired help, so to speak, in the social scale.

Rulers that you've been talking about are the top. And the ruler is, his power and his wealth are demonstrated by how many servants he has, is one indication. And what you're saying is that we're gonna be servants? That doesn't work. This is a big surprise.

Now, do we have to try to figure out how to read it in such a way that the reader is presenting this story, the narrator's presenting the story, and letting the surprise come through in your voice. It's a part of what we're, it's a part of what we wanted to do. We wanna let the, not just think, well, same old, same old here. We've already heard this. Okay, the melodic pattern.

Melodic pattern has to do with, do we have the once upon a time melodic pattern? Do we have the solved melodic pattern? Do we have the teaching? How you do that makes a difference. Are you going to just impose your own normal vocal melody?

You know what I mean by melody, the notes go up and down? Or are you going to try to let the text speak through it? What's the next thing? Allow your voice, how will you allow your voice to communicate, see it, feel it, say it? There's tone, there's mood, there's a lot of things coming through here that the voice can do.

And then the writer himself were reading, what would he do? How would he read this? Okay, and the rate has something to do with it, how fast you read it. Most of us read too fast. We read way too fast.

So a lot of it, we have to slow down, overdo, think it, follow the story, and tell it. Now, let's do this text. Somebody who is willing to be our, well I hate to say guinea pig, that doesn't sound right, somebody who is willing to be stopped in mid-sentence and let's go back and let's think again, let's see how that sounded and so forth, if you're willing to do that with us. And we'd like for you, and if you worked on this already and got it figured out, we'd like to let somebody begin reading and then we'll work with you on it. And we're gonna help you till you'll be beat up and bruised and whatever else.

But who wants to volunteer? We got lots of volunteers, I'm sure. We got a volunteer right down here in the front. Okay, James, what? James.

Okay, James, why don't you do this? Why don't you stand up? You can do better standing up and kind of turn back in that direction toward the and let's see What we hear when James reads this for us, we may stop you before you get all the way through but go ahead and let me get over on this side so I'm not crowding you. With her sons, kneeling down and asking something from him. And he said to her, what do you wish?

She said to him, grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on your right hand and the other on your left in your kingdom. Let's stop right here. What does a question sound like? What do you wish? Okay, what we have is what we call circumflex inflection or a rising inflection or a going down inflection.

A question usually goes up, what do you wish? Right, I'm not saying that's the way you should say it, but you said what do you wish? And that's probably from my, now that I'm questioning some things here, my looking at it as he's exasperated. OK. They've been talking about this and now they're coming.

You see how this set the tone for what he's the way he's made raising the question. Like, Have you ever had somebody come to you asking for something? Say, what do you want now? My question is, what do you do with that? Because I was pretty confident in that.

Then I hear these, and I agree with Joaquin, what you're saying in your name, and what's being said here. I can hear you. If this question were one of exasperation, you might start out by saying, then the mother of 70s sense of it. It's like, they came, and the mother came, the tumbler came, Okay, now here's what happens, see. He put on wish.

You did you. What do you wish? What do you wish So any whatever you put the where you put the emphasis You know emphasis is going to make the difference in the thing see So I understand why he's doing it this way, so that it doesn't come up on the end like a question normally does because he's communicating an exasperation with it. Take up with verse 21 and continue However you want to What do you wish Thank you. And he said to her, I don't think you're laughing, and he said to her, what do you wish?

She said to him, granted these two sons of mine may sit one on your right hand and the other on the left in your kingdom. But Jesus answered and said you do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with? They said to him we are able. So he said to them, you will indeed drink my cup and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with, but to sit on my right hand and on my left is not mine to give, but it is for those whom it is prepared by my Father.

Okay, now, what are you hearing? Let's give a little feedback. It sounds a little didactic. Okay. What if it has to possibly be more emotional?

Okay, in other words, are you able to drink the cup? It's just you're emphasizing and be baptized with the baptism I am baptized with. This is the kind of the tone of what you're giving. Huh? That is, do we want that?

Or do we wanna do something different, see? I think some of the narratives that I've acted in the sense that there's gonna be, there's passion. Are you able to dream? I mean, he's teaching them, but it's like, for the last time, will you please get it? You know, there's some, there's some, there's some emotion there you can teach him.

What emotion do you got? Okay, you get a different take. Tell us. Yes, I am. Okay, now you see there's a difference between simple reading and dramatic reading and expository reading.

We're not trying to put something in, we're trying to let something come out. Okay, let's continue Where you left off pleased with the two brothers. But Jesus called them to himself and said, you know the rulers of the Gentiles lording over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. Yet it shall not be so among you. But whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant.

And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave, just as the son of man did not come to be served, but to serve and to give his life a ransom for many. Okay? Now I have an idea that something you're doing there, I have an idea that the whole statement of Jesus, starting with verse 25, in the back of his mind or in the front of his mind are conscious, Strongly conscious is what? What's he thinking? Huh?

The cross, crucifixion. Because he comes to it in the end. He's already mentioned it earlier. He is saying all of this in light of the cross. Now can you let that come through?

If you were saying to them, I'm talking to them, Have you ever been so preoccupied with some issue that even though you're talking with somebody else about something else, overwhelming your dialogue is that thing that's hanging over your mind? Now is that possibly what's happening here at this point in the book of Matthew and in this point? Now that being the case, can we read the the words of Jesus in 25 and following with the fact that everything, everything is affected. Everything he says is affected by the cross. Everything is an interpretation of the cross.

Everything reflects the reality of what he is about to do. We know that from the last verse. So how will that change it? See, how will that make a difference? Great job.

Somebody else want to try it? In general, it seems to me a normative speech when people are normally talking, there would be a different pace in general when you're quoting someone speaking as opposed to the narrative part where it says, you know, and when they heard it. And then when the quote comes in, the natural tone of language or speech would just, in my estimation, would just increase or be more a different pace than the narrative section. Okay, how many people talk in this, in this, How many characters in this? Let's just talk about all the characters.

First you got the mother, you get the two sons. The two sons are one character. You get that? They're not two different ones. You got the mother and the two sons and Jesus and what?

The 10. So you got four characters, the mother, the two sons, Jesus and the 10. How many of the characters speak? Two characters speak. We are able three characters speak, right?

So you got three speaking characters. Now when you read those three, do you think about those characters? And does your voice reveal those characters, or do they all sound the same? Ooh, this is tough. This is getting hard here.

You mean I got to do voices? Some of you do voices when you read those little stories to your kids or grandkids, don't you? You do voices. When I read to my grandkids, I'm always doing voices. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Now there's the love and affection that Jesus has, along with the cross, the shadow of the cross falling across all of this. That's a pretty heavy-duty emotion.

Okay? I don't think you can, I think you can, you can, it's got to be very, very subtle? Almost so subtle that it's not distinguishable. Of course, we're not doing a dramatic reading here. We're not trying to make voices in that sense.

But we you could change the pace a little bit, you could, you could make the tone of it, the sound of it a little different. And therefore it would be it would be enough that you know, when the narrator's talking and when one of the characters is talking. So the narrator has a different way of communicating. Ordinarily, the narrator is doing the telling a story part, and then the speaker has a different style because he's teaching or communicating in that way. One of the things that you're pointing out, I think that is important here, is that if we have an Old Testament quotation, it's almost like I want to do an Old Testament quotation with the making announcement type.

Like over here, I'm reading just over in the next part. All this was done that it might be fulfilled, which was spoken by the prophet, saying, tell the daughter of Zion, behold, your king is coming to you lowly and sitting on a donkey, a colt, the foal of a donkey. Ta-dum, I'm making an announcement, this is what this prophet's prophecy said long ago. And I think sometimes that to me distinguishes the Old Testament prophetic quotation from the narrative. And it may be that works for you.

Maybe you want to do something different. Now, somebody, alright. I have a question. Early on you mentioned the importance of some sense of relationship with hermeneutics in the reading. What about the original language of Greek here?

How much should you, if you were doing this in church as the teacher, as the pastor of Greek, My guess is would be that an English Bible is adequate. But I would say also that if you are able to use the languages and able to use the resources, language resources, then you probably should, in preparing to preach or read or teach, you should be digging that stuff out. I mean, you should be going and checking that. I would guess that the occasions when that changes, the reading would be unusual. But at the same time, it might.

It might give you an insight that would cause you to see something of the depth of that word. The problem about it is interpreting word meanings from the original languages has to take into account a semantic range. Does everybody know what semantic range? Semantic range means the meaning of the word has a range. It doesn't have just one meaning.

If I were to put the word cat up here on the board, then I would ask you what's this mean? What I would ask you this, what did I have in mind when I wrote that up there? You might say, well, your wife's housecat. Somebody else says no, I'm thinking of a mountain lion in the news that recently mauled a jogger in the hills, you know, in California. Huh?

I'm thinking of a caterpillar tractor. Oh no, I'm thinking of a really, some older people might say, a really cool New Orleans jazz player. Oh, no, I'm thinking of, I mean, how many things can you think of with the word cat? Semantic range is pretty wide. So how do you know what we mean when we use that word?

The context, the words around it, see? So actually, even in looking up a word in the original language, you're going to have to realize that just because you find out that this word meant sometimes, somewhere, something, it doesn't mean it means it here. Yeah, emphasis. Okay. Right.

Yeah, emphasis. So when you read and make that type of passage, it would really be what would seem to me to be a DNA. But I can see that all of a sudden, you can start to get into preaching right through the reading. Right. OK, somebody else read Matthew 20 for us.

OK? No, stand up and you can stand up where you are. Come up here. Now, Give us a little insight as to what you're seeing. Let me get on this side here.

Give us a little insight as to what you're seeing here. I mean, how are you coming at this? I'm coming at it from the narrative. Okay. You know, telling the story.

Just telling the story. Okay. Okay. Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him with her sons kneeling down and asking something from him and he said to her, what do you wish? She said to him, granted these two sons of mine may sit, one on your right hand and the other on the left, in your kingdom.

OK, let me ask you this. How serious is this woman with the way she's saying this request? It's a pretty big deal. It's a pretty big deal, isn't it? It's the biggest deal she's ever asked.

And how does that come through? She says, the way you're reading it, you said, grant that these two sons of mine may sit, one on your right hand and the other on the left in your kingdom. Pass the beans, please. You know what I'm saying? This is not this is not this doesn't sound like the most important request she's ever made in her life.

This is everything's hanging on this for her son. You know what I'm saying? Is there some way we can communicate that? Okay. Except at the middle East in the middle East, it's, it's not too unnormal, not a normal to do this.

I had a guy from who was the, worked in the consular office in Jordan, who spent a lot of time in the Middle East. And he explained this by saying, look, this is not uncommon. So he said, I have had people come to the consul and say, I would like to talk to you about my cousin who needs a job, and appeal in behalf of the cousin. He said that is just the way they do things. Somebody goes ahead and makes the appeal in behalf of the person who is seeking the appointment or whatever else, and they do that as a normal thing.

He even said there's a name for it, and he gave the name in Arabic. So it is the kind of thing where, and this helps us a little bit to know, it may not be so totally out of order for her to come. Maybe there's just a custom here. I don't know. She came with her son's kneeling down.

Yeah. Right. When you read it, like the sun's kneeling. And my reading so far but she came and they were standing behind. What were you thinking when you who's kneeling?

Well, under her? Yeah, I mean, part of when I was going through this is my own worst. I'm your narrative. I want to get to do scripture and Okay, here's the thing. This still has to start off with the once upon a time thing.

You with me? Then the mother of Zebedee's sons came to him, with her sons, kneeling down and asking something of him. Now, here's something that happened. Then this happened. And I'm telling you that the story is unfolding and everybody's thinking, yeah, this is OK so far.

It's just a story. It's unfolding. Has anything dramatic happened yet? No, not really. It sounds strange to us that she would come, but not really.

Have you ever asked your mom to talk to your dad about something? Mom, would you talk to dad? Would you ask him if I could have the car on Saturday? Why don't you talk to him? Well, I don't want to.

You talk to him. This is not unusual even in American culture, you know. Okay? Okay? Except that they weren't Muslim.

He probably was becoming very conscious. Except that they weren't Muslim. They're Jewish. These are not Muslim. The Jewish mother is a big heavy duty influencer.

Do you know about Jewish mothers? Is it? Yeah, my son, the doctor. And she's trying to set him up with somebody. I mean, they're big players in the Jewish culture compared to Islamic culture, where it's a very different story.

You shut up and stay and keep your head covered and all this stuff. So I think that there's a good point, though, to bring out that the Middle Eastern culture is gonna vary considerably from one cultural aspect to another. Okay, one of the things that Dr. Jacks says, he says when you come to a, Verse 22, when Jesus answered and said. Now, do you think said is an important word to emphasize there?

See, we usually say Jesus answered and said. And we say, and he points out this, he said in verse 21, we would say, and he said to her, like to, is that a big, is that important, to? And he said to her. Sort of letting them know that dialogue's upcoming. I know, but is that what you want to emphasize, the to?

Well, have you heard people, I mean, this is the way we sometimes read. And so he said unto him, and he says, Jack says, look, unto and to, and all that is not really important. And he said to her, what do you wish? And then she said to him, so you gotta think about what is important in here, what do we wanna emphasize? Okay, we're gonna go back and start and Do verse 21 and continue and read along.

And he said to her, what do you wish? She said to him, granted these two sons of mine may sit, one on your right hand and the other on the left in your kingdom. But Jesus answered and said, You do not know what you ask. Are you able to drink the cup that I am about to drink and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized in? They said to him, We are able.

Okay, how do you think this is coming off? Huh, oh really I didn't pick that but that's what do you think? Okay slow down some Okay, slow down some. Does he want to provoke thought here? Is Jesus wanting you...

You need... It's almost like he's saying, look, you need to think this through. You're not thinking about this. You don't understand what's involved here. And in his mind, what's he thinking?

The cross. It's like the shadow of the cross is over this whole conversation. You don't understand this. And I think that there is that sense can come through in the reading. Amazing what can come through of the tone of that, okay?

I wonder, based on exactly what you just said, is it possible that when you asked this, you were able to think about the downside, is it possible that would, for the purpose of getting them to think of a horrible question, but they wouldn't have answered it anyway? It may be. It may be. I don't know, I'm thinking. Yeah, whatever, whatever, we're Ready to go, man.

Okay. When he does, he says, what can you will indeed? So it might be because he later says, who sits at my right and who sits on my left is not for me to get that's my father. But if you want to share in the suffering in the cup, I'll sign you up. I'm not saying that he is doing that, you know, but he's saying, Are you sure you want you know, do I have any volunteers, I cannot tell you that I will be able to give you the prize that you're looking for.

I'll take the volunteers. Okay, there's an interpretation. We're gonna have to break and take a break and get some more coffee and sweeten up our taste. You got some of those little cake out there, and so forth. Let me ask you this, did you would you ever have thought that just reading the Bible could be so complicated?

And I'm hoping See, I have this, I have this little bit of dread that everybody goes away saying, forget it. It's not gonna happen. I think just one quick thing is the encouragement for me it was that the objective is to have the word come alive. Especially from somebody that wants to speed read. We're constantly, I was just talking to Jim last night, between one break to another during a regular work week, you get 30 voicemails, 50 emails.

So your brain is made to, you get texts, go through it, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Then you're gonna stop, and they're like, okay, What's gonna slow me down, but to have the word come alive, okay? That's our aim isn't it? The point for me is I've always read the Bible in quantity. How much can I read?

How much can I get through? How much can I do? And I tell my sons, I've read this. How much have you read? And what this is coming to me is this is more of a conversation.

You're not trying to condense the conversation into a certain amount of time. You take the pause, you stop and think. When I'm talking and conversing with you, I will think about what I'm responding to you without just doing it as fast as I can. And I think that's the biggest thing I'm getting out of here is that we need to slow down and make this narrative or the teaching or whatever more of a conversation that each party is thinking about what the other's saying and not just going to the next part. That just hit me like I have been doing it so wrong.

Well, you know, even if all we do, listen, if all we do is slow down and be more deliberate and more careful, we will accomplish something seriously right there. Yes sir? I want you know what I would hope All of you go back and develop a reading team. Team of people who are the core, not that that's The only people that read in the worship are in, but develop a reading team so that they can begin to really practice and think about it. We used to do this, we used to have like two different people read a selection like that, even three, just get up and read a text.

And it was important for us to have the scriptures the central.